Curse

Amy Awien · Jan 10, 2011, 08:43 AM // 08:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

...

I'll keep it short,

1) Pet survivabilty is more then adequate, 33% damage reduction means they'll take less damage then the average partymember and thus require less healing.
2) There are enough skills available in BM to boost pet survivability even further, should you want that.
3) There are sufficient good and unconditional pet-attacks to have one on each of it's attacks (without having to fill your bar with them)
4) Pet comes with permanent IAS, should your build need one
5) Pet comes with the only decent non-elite e-manament available to rangers, should your build need one
6) Pet can carry SoH and other (physical) buffs.

There are good builds without pets and good builds with pets. Choose whatever you like.

reaper with no name · Jan 10, 2011, 09:04 AM // 09:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rites

melee management in pet builds is actually quite simple...... get rid of the PvE only skills that everyone has become so reliant on considering the fact that a ranger's expertise has NO effect on these skills. my ranger is set with 30 energy, and even with me spamming NRA on recharge, with the use of scavenger strike my energy never goes below 5.

I think you meant "energy" management.

So, your solution to the problem of not having enough energy to fuel the skills that make you powerful is to...not use the skills that make you powerful?

Energy is useless on it's own. It only becomes useful when it allows you to do more than you otherwise would have been able to do.

Xiaquin · Jan 10, 2011, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

Unless you really have something to add to the barrage with IAS discussion, than there is no reason it can't continue on to any other aspect of Ranger-ness that is worth discussing.

That's...not quite how threads work. I would like people browsing this forum who are looking for help actually find the information/discussion they need. Those who want to learn about pets won't be looking in a thread about Barrage. That's all I meant.

Vazze · Jan 10, 2011, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

It is now very hard to formulate a hypothesis that accounts for all the observed data.

The extra time is coming from his ping. If a skill can be successfully queued on the server in time, that skill will start immediately; if it can't be queued because it is recharging, it has to cancel an attack sequence and your ping (0.05-0.5s) will be added to every barrage cycle. Other than that you are right: the arrow leaves the bow at half time and that is when the skill recharge starts. If skills could be queued while recharging, you would get the ideal ~1.67s value.

Barrage+volley could increase your shot/s under max ias, but that is plus one skill and volley is weaker than barrage and even that is not gonna be exactly 1.33s/shot because of the long volley recharge.

Kunder · Jan 10, 2011, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vazze

The extra time is coming from his ping. If a skill can be successfully queued on the server in time, that skill will start immediately; if it can't be queued because it is recharging, it has to cancel an attack sequence and your ping (0.05-0.5s) will be added to every barrage cycle. Other than that you are right: the arrow leaves the bow at half time and that is when the skill recharge starts. If skills could be queued while recharging, you would get the ideal ~1.67s value.

Barrage+volley could increase your shot/s under max ias, but that is plus one skill and volley is weaker than barrage and even that is not gonna be exactly 1.33s/shot because of the long volley recharge.

No, it can't be that. If it was my ping, and 1.8 seconds would be reduced to 1.67s with perfect ping, then the 2.0s without IAS would also be reduced to about 1.85ish seconds with perfect ping. Ping SHOULD affect both either equally or at least similarly, because you can't queue regardless of whether you are using IAS.

Just Sai · Jan 10, 2011, 09:39 PM // 21:39

when you roll dice numbers come up, weather you see them or not

Vazze · Jan 10, 2011, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

No, it can't be that. If it was my ping, and 1.8 seconds would be reduced to 1.67s with perfect ping, then the 2.0s without IAS would also be reduced to about 1.85ish seconds with perfect ping. Ping SHOULD affect both either equally or at least similarly, because you can't queue regardless of whether you are using IAS.

Actually, you should not be able to barrage with 2.02s/shot. How did you measure the times?

Kunder · Jan 10, 2011, 10:20 PM // 22:20

I outlined how I measured the times above. Exceedingly fast macro repeater + linked stopwatch, along with making sure I had very good ping at the time. I was surprised too.

Amy Awien · Jan 10, 2011, 10:30 PM // 22:30

I try not to depend on funny stuff like tube-staring, Zealous Renewal will count my hits during a 20 sec interval and display the result.

Without IAS I get of about 8 barrages on recurve and flatbow, 7 on hornbow. With a 25% IAS I get 9 hits with all three of them. Auto-attacking gets 10 hits with the flatbow 8 with the recurve and 7 with the hornbow.

I forgot to get a longbow from the chest, but I reckon it would end up somewhere between the flat and the recurve bows ...

Numbers are rounded down by nature of the test, so 9 might have been 9.9 ... A primary dervish with 16 Mysticism might be able to Extend Zealous Renewal to 40ish seconds to get more accurate results. A Bip-hero might be needed.

Btw, you probably don't need to hammer, humans are a lot better at timing then at reacting.

Rites · Jan 11, 2011, 03:38 AM // 03:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

I think you meant "energy" management.

So, your solution to the problem of not having enough energy to fuel the skills that make you powerful is to...not use the skills that make you powerful?

Energy is useless on it's own. It only becomes useful when it allows you to do more than you otherwise would have been able to do.

yeah i just caught that too

and actually my solution to the problem was merely to pay attention to your builds as far as energy consumption. why build a bar that you know requires 60 energy to properly execute if you can't maintain 60 energy? on a noncaster that uses melee weapons (or bow), setting up a skill bar of all 10+ energy is just asking for failure without proper energy management set in.

Chthon · Jan 11, 2011, 04:12 AM // 04:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rites

yeah i just caught that too

why build a bar that you know requires 60 energy to properly execute if you can't maintain 60 energy?

Because results are what matter. If nothing else a ranger can do matches the DPS from Barrage+EBSoH (which is pretty much the case against any sizable mob), and spending 3 extra skills plus 8 or 9 attributes is what it takes to get energy for EBSoH working (which is pretty much the case in a Barrage build), then you pay the price you have to pay.

Vazze · Jan 11, 2011, 04:39 AM // 04:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

I outlined how I measured the times above. Exceedingly fast macro repeater + linked stopwatch, along with making sure I had very good ping at the time. I was surprised too.

No idea, starting and stopping the stopwatch might not be accurate. I used to use video capture and replayed it frame by frame.
You can easily have 130ms latency but 2ms is not possible.

Rites · Jan 12, 2011, 03:25 AM // 03:25

@chthon

i don't use eotn pve skills, i feel they are overpowered (and yes i do have rank 6+ on all the needed titles for those skills, i just don't like them)

and considering that i have completed factions, eotn, and prophecies (and now working on VQ them as i also work on finishing NF) apparently for my playstyle NOT adding too many high energy skills work just fine for me.

to each their own, we are all human and play our own ways